Brainstorming
A reply to a Feminist, who insists, despite all evidence to the contrary, that feminists don't hate men.
Here was my original dialogue.
Feminist: "Feminism: great for women... also great for men!"
Sane Person: "Uh huh. So when you disrupted a conference on male suicide by pulling fire alarms, singing "Cry Me a River" and offering to collect the male tears of the brothers and sons of the dead, how was that helping men?"
Feminist: "The fact that you question Feminism is the reason we need Feminism!"
Sane Person: "That's a deflection. Why don't you answer the question?"
Feminist: "Why do you hate women?"
Sane Person: "That's another..."
Feminist: "I bet it because you can't get laid!"
Sane Person: "Will you focus on the issues?"
Feminist: "Pathetic man-baby! Cry me some male tears why doncha, man-baby?"
Sane Person: "Ok, you aren't interested in anything beyond abuse, and we're done" (*leaves*)
Feminist: "Hey! Hey! Did you all see that? He was trying to rape me! Donations pls!"
(Full quote from the feminist in question is far below.)She replied, and my response to that continues from here.
https://www.facebook.com/HuffPostWomen/videos/vb.153213781413350/1065980990136620/?type=2&theater¬if_t=video_reply¬if_id=1468392097080825
"Sorry but no, I completely disagree."
Of course you do - you don't care about evaluating new information that conflicts with your ideology.
"You're telling me that I'm not right to tell someone to settle down"
As I said, Feminists would have sworn at you historically if you'd tried that on them. Who are you to decide which emotions others may experience? Why is it you don't object to angry feminists?
" as though that's logical?"
You've completely ignored all evidence we have presented... but now you care about logic?
"the things you are saying are based on misinformation from hate groups. "
You have provided no evidence to back up anything you believe, and dismiss all the evidence you don't like on the grounds that it must be from bad people.
Jess Phillips, the Labour MP for Birmingham Yardley, angrily dismissed the idea of having a parliamentary debate on issues affecting men, and laughed at male suicide rates. (source)
She then called for male critics of Feminism to be arrested. (source)
This person has enormous political power, is supported by Feminists in the name of Feminism, and wants to introduce laws straight out of 1984, and you insist Feminism didna doo nuffin'.
"Feminism is not a hate group. "
And yet it invented the concept of toxic masculinity, without any correspondent toxic femininity. And it's easy, through word association, to establish feminists hate men.
They never talk about positive qualities of men unless they are filtering their words - when they freely associate, they will use negative terms only for men, who are seen as The Other... and they will only use positive terms for their In Group, i.e. women.
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| Feminists hate boys |
Feminism is the doctrine of hatred of men and boys.
It's the hatred of PEOPLE.
But feminists are no longer able to see men and boys as people.
Which is why, in Australia, it's legal to pay men less per hour for identical work - men were legally re-classified by the Australian Human Rights Commission - controlled by feminists like Gillard - as not BEING HUMAN.
http://brettcaton.blogspot.com.au/2015/09/men-are-not-regarded-as-human-thanks-to.html
"The feminists who commented on this page said they don't hate men"
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| "Your argument is wrong, because of your race". Tell me again how Feminists aren't racist? |
Talk is cheap. Lots of neo-nazis say they don't hate other racists. We care about deeds. We look at feminists writing laws that protect female rapists, that make innocent behaviour such as the act of sharing champagne with your bride on your wedding night into a crime.
- we look at feminists calling for Sexual Segregation, for special treatment, for more and more resources to be spent on one sex than the other...
...and we know that all the fine words don't make a damn bit of difference compared to WHAT YOU ARE DOING.
" I volunteer four times a month "
Which proves what?
" you're claiming I'm a nazi [sic]"
No. There are very few Nazis remaining on this planet. I'm claiming you are a fascist, yes, but your focus is on the hatred of men and boys, not on Jews and Gypsies.
And Feminism is far more subtle than Nazism ever was - but far more bold about wanting a genocide.
Feminists constantly talk about exterminating men - but in the end, they try to persuade us to murder ourselves instead. They laugh, and sing with joy, at male suicides. Do you have any idea who Big Red even is?
The thing about the Nazis is - they thought they were good people too.
"Saying I'm not allowed to say"
You're allowed to say what you want - in fact, as Facebook has shown, Feminists can freely call me a "white c*nt" and they will turn a blind eye to it, because they have that area run by and for Feminists.
But there's a difference between ALLOWED and JUSTIFIED that you seem incapable of grasping. You will not honestly deal with us - then you are offended when we call you out on it? Boo hoo! I don't care about your Feelz.
" Comments on this thread, saying things that females attempt suicide only for attention shows hate."
No, it shows reason. Death is easy. Do you think men are more competent than women? That women can't kill themselves properly because they are stupid? When men try to die, they succeed. Women cut themselves a little, then call for help, or they swallow pills that won't kill them for hours and sit in a place where they will likely be found.
And it works - women get far more resources proportionally. Feminists make damned sure of it.
In fact, when women's suicide rose a little to the rate of men, it was classed as a disaster... for women.
The concept of treating people equally regardless of their sex is impossible for feminists.
" When every feminist blog I've looked at discussed protecting rape victims both male and female" ... yet ignores the feminists writing laws that grant female rapists immunity to prosecution - yeah, so what if the blogs you read confirm your biases?
You just "no tru feminist!" the ones you don't like.
You aren't going to read new information, so I'm going to post this up in case others read it one day.
I do not believe you are honest, and further discussion with *you* is pointless - but should anyone else have a desire to know more, the information is there, or I can provide it on request.
"discusses why consent is important"
Two people share a glass of wine and then have sex. Which of them raped the other? Thanks to feminists, legally, they are both rapists and they are both rape victims - but we know feminists will always ask "well, which was the man?"
Feminists don't care about consent, they care about harming men. Sane people are capable of ongoing consent - we don't suddenly decide that our taxi driver must have kidnapped us because they didn't ask if we still wanted to be driven every minute on the minute.
"why men and women should be paid the same for the same quality of work"
As I pointed out before, FEMINISTS HAVE DONE THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF THIS.
Feminists APPLAUDED the legal decision to pay men less per hour for identical work on the grounds that women deserve more because vagina.
That's a fact. But you don't care about the facts. You doublethink your way around them.
"why pro-choice is important"
Are you copying and pasting from some feminist list of grievances now? Abortion is a different topic - nice derailment attempt! And you wonder why we think you are dishonest.
" why harassment is wrong"
You feminists class everything a man says to a woman as harassment. "Good evening" was counted in a feminist video on the subject - one very popular with feminists. They didn't object to that shifting of the goal posts.
"why it's okay for guys to be sensitive"
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| Randi Harper was then called to the UN to speak on behalf of Feminists, for a conference on how terribly harassed women are. Talk about putting a fox in charge of a hen house! |
... this from the movement that created a meme of "male tears" and "masculinity so fragile".
You hypocrite!
"how it's important to defend against homophobia"
Recently, feminists classed gay men as "privileged". Feminists applauded as gay men were arrested in the 1970s, and they do their damnedest to silence gay men like Milo when he says the things they don't like. When feminists march on to the platform of gay men and grab the microphone and tell the gay men that they are not allowed to talk, then I have to take your claims as being utterly worthless.
" transphobia"
Hahaha. TERF. Look it up. Feminists celebrate hating transgender women. There's a good reason people like Blaire White oppose you.
"racism"
Feminists routinely denounce white people - they even claim they can't be racist against white people.They write themselves a permission slip for violent behaviour.
When feminists call other people "WHITE c*nts", it's because they are racist, and because other Feminists are racist, and because they have the power to be racist with impunity. They enable each other's bigotry. That's a choice.
You, as a Feminist, are responsible for what is being done in your name. Instead, you persist in making excuses that result in people being murdered.
" I am absolutely certain it's not a hate group."
You are absolutely certain despite contrary evidence you never evaluate. You are a close-minded ideologue.
"If haters exist, I can't control them"
Yes, you can. You can stop supporting them.
When Dworkin was put in charge of teaching feminism to millions of students, feminists didn't object. They applauded. They made a choice. Don't give me that rubbish about being powerless.
" anymore than you can control groups like RotK"
... a group that has absolutely no connection to men's rights, and despises MRAs to boot. Why the hell would you think that was analogous? Are you an idiot?
" the difference is I'm not claiming that you must hate women "
Feminists call their opponents misogynists all the time. It's a standard tactic. In fact, Gillard even had the dictionary definition re-written after an argument with her opposition fell apart because they weren't using the Feminist definition.
We are at war with Eastasia. We have always been at war with Eastasia.
"When I see other feminists who work humanitarian jobs and volunteer, I don't see hate."
When the Nazis saw smoke blowing in from the ovens, they didn't see hate either. They made sure they thought about other things. They might not have killed Jews in person - but blood was on their hands nevertheless.
"Saying I need to address every radical while the majority are against hate is irrational."
Your claim that the majority is against hate has no evidence to back it up - and plenty of evidence against it.You don't oppose the radicals in any case - any of them. You just say you do.
And I'm done arguing with a fanatic who wouldn't know an honest thought if it smacked her in the face.
Yes, they used the "Wall of Text" and "Gish Gallop" to boot.
Brett Caton Sorry but no, I completely disagree. You're telling me that I'm not right to tell someone to settle down and stop raging and throwing out random insults, as though that's logical? It's not. And the things you are saying are based on misinformation from hate groups. Feminism is not a hate group. The feminists who commented on this page said they don't hate men, and you respond by calling them liars, which matches my point perfectly. I volunteer four times a month and you're claiming I'm a nazi which again shows hate. Saying I'm not allowed to say I shouldn't have insults thrown at me shows hate. Comments on this thread, saying things that females attempt suicide only for attention shows hate. When every feminist blog I've looked at discussed protecting rape victims both male and female, discusses why consent is important, why men and women should be paid the same for the same quality of work, why pro-choice is important, why harassment is wrong, why it's okay for guys to be sensitive, how it's important to defend against homophobia, transphobia and racism I am absolutely certain it's not a hate group. If haters exist, I can't control them anymore than you can control groups like RotK, the difference is I'm not claiming that you must hate women because of all the anti-feminists out there who despise women, homosexuals and men who express feelings other than rage. When I see other feminists who work humanitarian jobs and volunteer, I don't see hate. The anti-feminist comments on this thread though? Different story. Saying I need to address every radical while the majority are against hate is irrational. The majority of anti-feminism I see is hateful though and I've looked at both sides, whereas you seem to only get your sources from one. You can cry and play the victim and pretend that warping an ideology around is somehow making a difference but in the end, I'm completely right. You can say that it's okay for men to express rage and aggression at others who disagree without being told to settle down, while saying feminists are hateful, but it only shows you as a hypocrite. I don't agree with hypocrites.
Further reading
Cat-Calling is (Now) a Crime
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