College Defends Removing Student Over “Disruptive” Rape Remarks
A 19-year-old says he was banned from the discussion portion of a humanities class at Reed College after students complained that his opinions on sexual assault made them feel uncomfortable. He doesn’t want to keep quiet.Pierce Girkin · Top Commenter · Works at Hiccup Circus Uganda
If this gives you any context, he posted it on a Reed FB page about the same time this article went up: http://imgur.com/RSCWiKE
Brett Caton · Top Commenter · Pennant Hills High School
@Pierce Girkin
I have encountered multitudes of women who claimed men were inferior. They almost always did gender studies classes. Should they be banned?
I mean, I think they should. Can we work together on this?
I have encountered multitudes of women who claimed men were inferior. They almost always did gender studies classes. Should they be banned?
I mean, I think they should. Can we work together on this?
Pierce Girkin · Top Commenter · Works at Hiccup Circus Uganda
Brett - No, no we can't. If you find yourself surrounded by women who often espouse this viewpoint, I'd say that's more a problem of who you choose to associate with than with women in general being man-hating she-bitches and out to destroy your life at any cost.
I go to Reed. I know most of the people involved here. This is not a problem of free speech being stifled. This is a problem of 1.) Not knowing what free speech really is and where it applies, and
2.) Having the respect and basic decency to cease and desist harmful behavior after being asked REPEATEDLY by MULTIPLE PARTIES to refrain.
Let's say, hypothetically, that the situation was a little different - but certainly related - in that it had to do with combat veterans suffering from PTSD instead of sexual assault survivors (who also often have PTSD). What if you had multiple of these veterans with PTSD in a college course whose syllabus sometimes touched on subjects of war and physical violence (or other related subjects which would act as triggers to these people).
Provided they were given ample forewarning about the content (i.e. trigger warnings), I imagine that most of those men and women would be able to cope with the discussions just fine. If not, they would politely excuse themselves from that particular class/discussion.
However, if you have one or two students who are aggressively vocal, demeaning, condescending to the lived experiences of these veterans, and also RELENTLESS in their indictments of the individuals in class - that is grounds from expulsion from the conversation.
Sure, they may not be setting off roman candles in class or physically threatening the veterans, but their ceaseless berating of these people could be enough to trigger their PTSD.
Yes, you have Freedom of Speech. But that only protects you from government sanction. So say whatever the hell you want, but be ready to face the consequences of your actions. And sure as hell don't cry for your first amendment rights when someone tells you to shut your goddamn mouth.
I go to Reed. I know most of the people involved here. This is not a problem of free speech being stifled. This is a problem of 1.) Not knowing what free speech really is and where it applies, and
2.) Having the respect and basic decency to cease and desist harmful behavior after being asked REPEATEDLY by MULTIPLE PARTIES to refrain.
Let's say, hypothetically, that the situation was a little different - but certainly related - in that it had to do with combat veterans suffering from PTSD instead of sexual assault survivors (who also often have PTSD). What if you had multiple of these veterans with PTSD in a college course whose syllabus sometimes touched on subjects of war and physical violence (or other related subjects which would act as triggers to these people).
Provided they were given ample forewarning about the content (i.e. trigger warnings), I imagine that most of those men and women would be able to cope with the discussions just fine. If not, they would politely excuse themselves from that particular class/discussion.
However, if you have one or two students who are aggressively vocal, demeaning, condescending to the lived experiences of these veterans, and also RELENTLESS in their indictments of the individuals in class - that is grounds from expulsion from the conversation.
Sure, they may not be setting off roman candles in class or physically threatening the veterans, but their ceaseless berating of these people could be enough to trigger their PTSD.
Yes, you have Freedom of Speech. But that only protects you from government sanction. So say whatever the hell you want, but be ready to face the consequences of your actions. And sure as hell don't cry for your first amendment rights when someone tells you to shut your goddamn mouth.
Reply · Like · 5 · Follow Post · March 20 at 9:06am
http://www.buzzfeed.com/katiejmbaker/college-professor-bans-student-from-class-for-his-views-on-r?fb_comment_id=fbc_798315440203488_798339723534393_798339723534393#.gh1nY2zVN
Brett Caton · Top Commenter · Pennant Hills High Schoolhttp://www.buzzfeed.com/katiejmbaker/college-professor-bans-student-from-class-for-his-views-on-r?fb_comment_id=fbc_798315440203488_798339723534393_798339723534393#.gh1nY2zVN
@Pierce Girkin
"No, no we can't. If you find yourself surrounded by women who often espouse this viewpoint, I'd say that's more a problem of who you choose to associate with than with women in general being man-hating she-bitches and out to destroy your life at any cost. "
Ah. So Black people who complain about neo-nazis doing nasty things to them are also responsible - they must be forcing the bastards to do those deeds, they can't be doing it by themselves??
Screw that victim blaming. The only reason you don't notice the misandry is you look away.
"This is not a problem of free speech being stifled. This is a problem of 1.) Not knowing what free speech really is and where it applies"
It applies everywhere. It is an inalienable human right. It doesn't cease to exist because different ideas to your hugbox make YOU *uncomfortable*.
" 2.) Having the respect and basic decency to cease and desist harmful behavior after being asked REPEATEDLY by MULTIPLE PARTIES to refrain."
How rude! He just won't sit at the back of the bus! He's been told MULTIPLE times by MULTIPLE parties that he must accept his place...
No.
If he has broken the rules then expel him. If he has merely dissented - then you are the ones who should be expelled. If free speech can no longer exist in that institution - it should no longer receive funds. That would be a violation of the separation of Church and State.
If you want to declare Feminism to be a Freedom-Free zone - go ahead; let the world know what a dangerous cult you have become.
"Let's say, hypothetically, that the situation was a little different - but certainly related - in that it had to do with combat veterans suffering from PTSD "
Which would be diagnosed professionally, require treatment and often make education impossible.
"instead of sexual assault survivors "
Except these ones only CLAIM to be - they are not diagnosed, are self-declared, refuse treatment and are happy to sit amongst others trying to police their actions.
"What if you had multiple of these veterans with PTSD in a college course whose syllabus sometimes touched on subjects of war and physical violence"
So they are incapable of dealing with the syllabus? Do you even hear yourself saying this?
"Provided they were given ample forewarning about the content (i.e. trigger warnings)"
You have no idea. You have done no research and have no qualifications, and you have decided you are an expert on PTSD. Amazing.
I can see how your hate-cult works now; you just make up whatever is convenient and decide that is now the truth. Anyone who points to facts - well, you shriek and point at them like pod-people.
No-one must be allowed to disturb the group-think.
"However, if you have one or two students who are aggressively vocal, demeaning, condescending to the lived experiences of these veterans, and also RELENTLESS in their indictments of the individuals in class"
Which would in itself not require them to be veterans, which would be classed as harassment - and which explicitly didn't occur here, making this a strawman argument.
He was not relentlessly attacking individuals. Unless you have evidence otherwise, the testimony thus far is that he simply did not perform the acts you want him to have performed. Now is the time to produce the evidence for your assertions.
None?
Despite everyone having recording devices?
How very odd.
" Sure, they may not be setting off roman candles in class or physically threatening the veterans, but their ceaseless berating of these people could be enough to trigger their PTSD."
If they were ceaselessly berating anyone they would be expelled. Didn't happen,false analogy, PTSD is a manipulative misdirection here.
"Yes, you have Freedom of Speech. But that only protects you from government sanction."
You just don't get it. Human Rights are inalienable. They apply to everyone. Whether or not the law can protect you from an infringement is another matter.
In many countries there's no freedom of religion. Nevertheless freedom of religion is a fundamental right. Slavery is common in China and India and Africa. SLAVERY IS STILL A VIOLATION OF THE FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT TO LIBERTY.
http://www.un.org/en/
You do not get to decide to take state funding for an educational institution - then decide only the dogma of your church will be heard.
http://www.un.org/en/
Now, Therefore THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY proclaims THIS UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS as a common standard of achievement for all peoples and all nations, to the end that every individual and every organ of society, keeping this Declaration constantly in mind, shall strive by teaching and education to promote respect for these rights and freedoms and by progressive measures, national and international, to secure their universal and effective recognition and observance, both among the peoples of Member States themselves and among the peoples of territories under their jurisdiction.
"every organ of society"
Your University is not an exception. Your country helped create this treaty, and signed this treaty, as a vision for all peoples, everywhere. You do not get little spaces to have slaves. You do not get spaces devoid of free speech. You do not get your fascist dream.
"So say whatever the hell you want, but be ready to face the consequences of your actions."
Yes. A fascist sees the consequences as being a foot to the ribs, a bullet to the head. A democrat? That people will dissent. That feelings may be *hurt*.
You show your true colours by *silencing* other opinions rather than refuting them. You are terrified of the marketplace of ideas. You know your creed can never survive that.
"And sure as hell don't cry for your first amendment rights"
He doesn't have to beg for the Constitution. It is his, now and always. It will not disappear no matter how hard you wish. And if you wish to burn it, you will find that others tried before - and they were a lot stronger than you.
You will fail, as your kind has always failed.
"when someone tells you to shut your goddamn mouth"
Make me. You petty thug - how will you manage it? You pathetic wretch - you dream of jackboots whilst sipping on a little latte and imagine yourself a warrior? You compare yourself to those who fought in Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam?
WORM.
What will you do? How will you make the voices of dissent **STOP?**
WE WILL NOT. STOP.
Je suis Charlie.
"No, no we can't. If you find yourself surrounded by women who often espouse this viewpoint, I'd say that's more a problem of who you choose to associate with than with women in general being man-hating she-bitches and out to destroy your life at any cost. "
Ah. So Black people who complain about neo-nazis doing nasty things to them are also responsible - they must be forcing the bastards to do those deeds, they can't be doing it by themselves??
Screw that victim blaming. The only reason you don't notice the misandry is you look away.
"This is not a problem of free speech being stifled. This is a problem of 1.) Not knowing what free speech really is and where it applies"
It applies everywhere. It is an inalienable human right. It doesn't cease to exist because different ideas to your hugbox make YOU *uncomfortable*.
" 2.) Having the respect and basic decency to cease and desist harmful behavior after being asked REPEATEDLY by MULTIPLE PARTIES to refrain."
How rude! He just won't sit at the back of the bus! He's been told MULTIPLE times by MULTIPLE parties that he must accept his place...
No.
If he has broken the rules then expel him. If he has merely dissented - then you are the ones who should be expelled. If free speech can no longer exist in that institution - it should no longer receive funds. That would be a violation of the separation of Church and State.
If you want to declare Feminism to be a Freedom-Free zone - go ahead; let the world know what a dangerous cult you have become.
"Let's say, hypothetically, that the situation was a little different - but certainly related - in that it had to do with combat veterans suffering from PTSD "
Which would be diagnosed professionally, require treatment and often make education impossible.
"instead of sexual assault survivors "
Except these ones only CLAIM to be - they are not diagnosed, are self-declared, refuse treatment and are happy to sit amongst others trying to police their actions.
"What if you had multiple of these veterans with PTSD in a college course whose syllabus sometimes touched on subjects of war and physical violence"
So they are incapable of dealing with the syllabus? Do you even hear yourself saying this?
"Provided they were given ample forewarning about the content (i.e. trigger warnings)"
You have no idea. You have done no research and have no qualifications, and you have decided you are an expert on PTSD. Amazing.
I can see how your hate-cult works now; you just make up whatever is convenient and decide that is now the truth. Anyone who points to facts - well, you shriek and point at them like pod-people.
No-one must be allowed to disturb the group-think.
"However, if you have one or two students who are aggressively vocal, demeaning, condescending to the lived experiences of these veterans, and also RELENTLESS in their indictments of the individuals in class"
Which would in itself not require them to be veterans, which would be classed as harassment - and which explicitly didn't occur here, making this a strawman argument.
He was not relentlessly attacking individuals. Unless you have evidence otherwise, the testimony thus far is that he simply did not perform the acts you want him to have performed. Now is the time to produce the evidence for your assertions.
None?
Despite everyone having recording devices?
How very odd.
" Sure, they may not be setting off roman candles in class or physically threatening the veterans, but their ceaseless berating of these people could be enough to trigger their PTSD."
If they were ceaselessly berating anyone they would be expelled. Didn't happen,false analogy, PTSD is a manipulative misdirection here.
"Yes, you have Freedom of Speech. But that only protects you from government sanction."
You just don't get it. Human Rights are inalienable. They apply to everyone. Whether or not the law can protect you from an infringement is another matter.
In many countries there's no freedom of religion. Nevertheless freedom of religion is a fundamental right. Slavery is common in China and India and Africa. SLAVERY IS STILL A VIOLATION OF THE FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT TO LIBERTY.
http://www.un.org/en/
You do not get to decide to take state funding for an educational institution - then decide only the dogma of your church will be heard.
http://www.un.org/en/
Now, Therefore THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY proclaims THIS UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS as a common standard of achievement for all peoples and all nations, to the end that every individual and every organ of society, keeping this Declaration constantly in mind, shall strive by teaching and education to promote respect for these rights and freedoms and by progressive measures, national and international, to secure their universal and effective recognition and observance, both among the peoples of Member States themselves and among the peoples of territories under their jurisdiction.
"every organ of society"
Your University is not an exception. Your country helped create this treaty, and signed this treaty, as a vision for all peoples, everywhere. You do not get little spaces to have slaves. You do not get spaces devoid of free speech. You do not get your fascist dream.
"So say whatever the hell you want, but be ready to face the consequences of your actions."
Yes. A fascist sees the consequences as being a foot to the ribs, a bullet to the head. A democrat? That people will dissent. That feelings may be *hurt*.
You show your true colours by *silencing* other opinions rather than refuting them. You are terrified of the marketplace of ideas. You know your creed can never survive that.
"And sure as hell don't cry for your first amendment rights"
He doesn't have to beg for the Constitution. It is his, now and always. It will not disappear no matter how hard you wish. And if you wish to burn it, you will find that others tried before - and they were a lot stronger than you.
You will fail, as your kind has always failed.
"when someone tells you to shut your goddamn mouth"
Make me. You petty thug - how will you manage it? You pathetic wretch - you dream of jackboots whilst sipping on a little latte and imagine yourself a warrior? You compare yourself to those who fought in Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam?
WORM.
What will you do? How will you make the voices of dissent **STOP?**
WE WILL NOT. STOP.
Je suis Charlie.
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